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M 577 Tent Pictures
Reforger-Victim
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Hessen, Germany
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Posted: Sunday, February 10, 2019 - 04:39 AM UTC
Hello,

does anyone have really good quality M577 command post's tent pictures of the built up tent? The canvas monster is meant .

Greetings

Matt
dmiles
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Posted: Sunday, February 10, 2019 - 11:21 PM UTC
google is our friend
heaps of pictures
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=m577+tent&tbm=isch&source=hp&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjYqsj5x7PgAhVKwVQKHROHAxMQsAR6BAgFEAE&biw=1350&bih=723
Reforger-Victim
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Hessen, Germany
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Posted: Sunday, February 10, 2019 - 11:38 PM UTC
I was talking about good quality pictures and of the canvas Monster. Google is not always Your friend, of there were pictures in Google I would t have opened a thread...
Paulinsibculo
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 12:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I was talking about good quality pictures and of the canvas Monster. Google is not always Your friend, of there were pictures in Google I would t have opened a thread...



Well,

Though wondering about your answering to somebody who realy gave some very good links, hereby my comments (as a long time, frequent user of this tent):
It is an absolutely easy piece to reproduce with Evergreen rod, larger pieces of thin alu foil and superglue.
The framework is very well depicted in quite some photos on the link of David. If you use Evergreen pipe for the joints and solid for the frame work one can easily build the whole as is done in real life. I once made it ages ago to represent my M109 battery command vehicle during a technical shooting session.
The walls can be made of foil, the anti rain protection can be cut separately and glued to represent the entrances. The roof hangs (in full scale) approx. 5 cm over the horizontal flaps.
But beware: over time there have been some variations in tent design. We, Dutch, had at least two different ones: the original US made and the Dutch replacements.
Furthermore, due to the users differences in the need for the added office room, these tents were set up more or less tight.
Staffs of brigade may have also used barbed wire around these tents (with all sorts of warning shields etc., which was of no need at battery level.

I hope you have been served acc. your wishes.

Schönen Tag gewünscht aus Holland

thathaway3
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 02:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text


The walls can be made of foil, the anti rain protection can be cut separately and glued to represent the entrances. The roof hangs (in full scale) approx. 5 cm over the horizontal flaps.



Another materiel which works very well for making canvas is the paper fabric used to cover R/C model airplane wings or even the paper used inside the packaging of new men's shirts. I paint both sides of the paper with either Olive Drab or a lightened mixture and when it dries it is easy to cut to shape.

Also for the frame, you can sometimes find aluminum (or aluminium if you prefer tubes which are often available at hobby shops. Between the metal tubes and some of the kit parts I was also able to fabricate the frame which completely assembles as a tent and disassembles and stores on the rack at the back of the FDC track.
m75
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 02:54 AM UTC
This thread would have been better served if posted under Vietnam or Modern Armor categories. I just happened to see it while browsing Soft Skins, but having lived in one for a bit, the M577 is anything but soft.
Reforger-Victim
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Hessen, Germany
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 05:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I was talking about good quality pictures and of the canvas Monster. Google is not always Your friend, of there were pictures in Google I would t have opened a thread...



Well,

Though wondering about your answering to somebody who realy gave some very good links, hereby my comments (as a long time, frequent user of this tent):
It is an absolutely easy piece to reproduce with Evergreen rod, larger pieces of thin alu foil and superglue.
The framework is very well depicted in quite some photos on the link of David. If you use Evergreen pipe for the joints and solid for the frame work one can easily build the whole as is done in real life. I once made it ages ago to represent my M109 battery command vehicle during a technical shooting session.
The walls can be made of foil, the anti rain protection can be cut separately and glued to represent the entrances. The roof hangs (in full scale) approx. 5 cm over the horizontal flaps.
But beware: over time there have been some variations in tent design. We, Dutch, had at least two different ones: the original US made and the Dutch replacements.
Furthermore, due to the users differences in the need for the added office room, these tents were set up more or less tight.
Staffs of brigade may have also used barbed wire around these tents (with all sorts of warning shields etc., which was of no need at battery level.

I hope you have been served acc. your wishes.

Schönen Tag gewünscht aus Holland




Hello,

danke sehr, you really have helped me.Do you have pictures of the built up tent, I need especially pictures of the kinds of ropes which are used to fix it...Also thanks to all others who gave a comment..

Greetings to the Netherlands...are you in Eindhoven SMC-event every year?


Paulinsibculo
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Overijssel, Netherlands
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 06:59 AM UTC
Hallo Matt,
These tents were secured with ropes and groundpins.
However: I allowed my staff to install it without all ropes if circumstances required a quick change of location or when the weather (read: wind) was no thread.
The frame of the M577 is very strong, the tents had strings to attached from the inside and the fibre of the tent, next to the form ‚guaranteed‘ a secure place.
Overall: the first link should give you all info needed.
And if you build it as a command post, please, be aware that quite some staff was around. At Brigade level you even could place some brass since the brig commander (at least in the Netherlands) used the M577 as well.
In an artillery unit it was used for the calculation to come on the required targets.
Kenaicop
#384
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 07:13 AM UTC
Bringing back lots of fond memories. Since I was commo I warked in the TOC a lot when I was with the 3D ACR back in the 80’s. We had , I believe, four 577’s all backed up together with the extensions all connected to form one large tented area. We had tons of OE-254 and 292 antennas set up around and on top of the 577’s. This was all S3 and S2, not sure about S1. For some reason the S4 was always far from us, no idea why. One day we had brownies from the mess hall, we squished them up to look like coyote turds, strategically placed them around the TOC, fun to see the look in a butter bars face at zero dark thirty when he thinks you’re eating turds.
Reforger-Victim
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Hessen, Germany
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 07:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Bringing back lots of fond memories. Since I was commo I warked in the TOC a lot when I was with the 3D ACR back in the 80’s. We had , I believe, four 577’s all backed up together with the extensions all connected to form one large tented area. We had tons of OE-254 and 292 antennas set up around and on top of the 577’s. This was all S3 and S2, not sure about S1. For some reason the S4 was always far from us, no idea why. One day we had brownies from the mess hall, we squished them up to look like coyote turds, strategically placed them around the TOC, fun to see the look in a butter bars face at zero dark thirty when he thinks you’re eating turds.



Hey, do you have some pictures of that time? Would be nice..Greetings, Matt
Reforger-Victim
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Hessen, Germany
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 07:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text


And if you build it as a command post, please, be aware that quite some staff was around. At Brigade level you even could place some brass since the brig commander (at least in the Netherlands) used the M577 as well.
In an artillery unit it was used for the calculation to come on the required targets.



No, I have built it as a First Aid Point Tent represented in reforger ftx in 1980...
Kenaicop
#384
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2019 - 07:37 AM UTC
Hi Matt, regretfully I have very little pics from those days. Just a few distant shots of tanks and friends, nothing of any substance.
Reforger-Victim
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Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 - 06:27 AM UTC
thats too bad...
HeavyArty
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Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 - 07:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

...We had, I believe, four 577’s all backed up together with the extensions all connected to form one large tented area...This was all S3 and S2, not sure about S1. For some reason the S4 was always far from us, no idea why...



The S1 and S4 had thier own HQ known as the ALOC (Admin and Logistics Operations Center). The reason is to separate the Bn HQ so one attack/strike doesn't destroy all of it and to provide an alternate HQ in case the TOC (Tactical Operations Center - S2, S3) is destroyed.

Spent lots of time on M577s at the TOC in my years in the Army. Good times.
GulfWarrior
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Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 - 08:08 AM UTC
...and it's not a tent. It's a vestibule.

Kevlar06
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Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 - 08:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Bringing back lots of fond memories. Since I was commo I warked in the TOC a lot when I was with the 3D ACR back in the 80’s. We had , I believe, four 577’s all backed up together with the extensions all connected to form one large tented area. We had tons of OE-254 and 292 antennas set up around and on top of the 577’s. This was all S3 and S2, not sure about S1. For some reason the S4 was always far from us, no idea why. One day we had brownies from the mess hall, we squished them up to look like coyote turds, strategically placed them around the TOC, fun to see the look in a butter bars face at zero dark thirty when he thinks you’re eating turds.




As a senior 1LT, I was the Squadron S-4 for 2/11 ACR for Reforger 79, since the S4 (normally a CPT) had been MEDEVAC'd. I'd previously been the HHT XO. The S4 M577 needed to be at least half way between the "Main" Command Post (S3 and S2) and the nearest routes to the COMMZ (communications zone) to better facilitate the movement of supplies, equipment, ammunition and rations forward. It was usually placed near the maintenance and mess areas, but offset somewhat, to better reduce the communications signature. The S4/S1 were usually left by their lonesome, S1 occasionally working in the S4s M577 because they generally didn't have an M577. The S4s primary means of commo with the rear at that time (in our case, Regimental S4 and V Corps G4) was radioteletype. But we were loaded with three ANVRC 12s as well. You can imagine the darn big commo "footprint" on its own, that's one reason it was separated from the S3/S2 tracks. S2/S3 folks track the battle "forward", S1/S4 folks track the battle "rearward". There are usually at least one rep from the S1/S4 with the Main CP. The S3 usually has at least one of its M577s forward too, as the "jump" track or forward CP-- that is, they take over when the main CP has to move. It's generally the same for each echelon, from BN through Corps, the difference being, the higher you go, the equipment might change, and the CP footprints will get functionally much larger. Our Headquraters section in the 2/11 Cav in 1979 had four M577s. One for a jump track, two for the main CP (S2/S3) and one for the S4. As you went higher, to Division level for instance, you'd find more M577s for other staff echelons-- for instance Medical and DIVARTY (When I was in the 9th DIVARTY, we had four M54 based expando-vans, but armored Division DIVARTY's might have up to four M577s). Hopefully, this gives you some idea of the way these mobile CPs are used. I spent the later half of my career working in these kinds of CPs (9th ID, 2ID, 25th ID, USAREUR, Eighth Army, and finally I Corps). When I wasn't in a CP, I was either in units like TECOM, Eighth Army, or USARPAC. Finally retired from all that CP set-up in 2006!
VR, Russ
Kevlar06
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Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 - 08:30 AM UTC
Just a Post Script to my earlier post-- the most fun I ever had while in an M577 was at the end of REFORGER 79, when the exercise was over. We had lagered with about ten other S4 vehicles somewhere north of Fulda in a long (maybe 20 miles wide by 20 miles long or so) valley with gently sloping sides. The weather was unseasonably warm for late September, and I'd climbed up on top of the track to have an early morning shave in my T-Shirt. As I was standing on top of the track, I noticed a very small dot in the sky off towards the south. I bent over to rinse my razor, and by the time I'd stood up, that tiny dot had become a full sized Luftwaffe F104G flying in full afterburner straight at me! It almost blew me off the track as it thundered over, and I could feel the heat of its exhaust on my newly shaven face. It couldn't have been more than 50 feet overhead. As I stood there gawking at its receding shape, the pilot pulled almost straight up and disappeared into the heavens. Thinking the show was over, I finished toweling off, then stood up again to a strange whistling noise-- from the east this time-- only to see the same "dot" appear in a dive down the valley side-- right towards my 577. This time I was more prepared, sat down on the generator housing, and watched him thunder over even lower than before. By the time the show was over, he'd buzzed our position about four or five times, from all the cardinal directions at low altitude. I figured he was using us for practice bomb runs, but it was quite an ear splitting show-- you couldnt hear much more than a whisper on the approach, but when he flew over it was incredibly loud. The sight of a fully camouflaged-Maltese-crossed-F104 flying at low altitude was unforgettable though.
VR, Russ
Tankrider
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Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 - 08:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The S1 and S4 had thier own HQ known as the ALOC (Admin and Logistics Operations Center).



I believe that the name changed from ALOC to Combat Trains Command Post (CTCP) some time ago. in my experience, ALOC was old speak while CTCP was the then current term.

FWIW

John
Reforger-Victim
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Hessen, Germany
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Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 - 09:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Bringing back lots of fond memories. Since I was commo I warked in the TOC a lot when I was with the 3D ACR back in the 80’s. We had , I believe, four 577’s all backed up together with the extensions all connected to form one large tented area. We had tons of OE-254 and 292 antennas set up around and on top of the 577’s. This was all S3 and S2, not sure about S1. For some reason the S4 was always far from us, no idea why. One day we had brownies from the mess hall, we squished them up to look like coyote turds, strategically placed them around the TOC, fun to see the look in a butter bars face at zero dark thirty when he thinks you’re eating turds.




As a senior 1LT, I was the Squadron S-4 for 2/11 ACR for Reforger 79, since the S4 (normally a CPT) had been MEDEVAC'd. I'd previously been the HHT XO. The S4 M577 needed to be at least half way between the "Main" Command Post (S3 and S2) and the nearest routes to the COMMZ (communications zone) to better facilitate the movement of supplies, equipment, ammunition and rations forward. It was usually placed near the maintenance and mess areas, but offset somewhat, to better reduce the communications signature. The S4/S1 were usually left by their lonesome, S1 occasionally working in the S4s M577 because they generally didn't have an M577. The S4s primary means of commo with the rear at that time (in our case, Regimental S4 and V Corps G4) was radioteletype. But we were loaded with three ANVRC 12s as well. You can imagine the darn big commo "footprint" on its own, that's one reason it was separated from the S3/S2 tracks. S2/S3 folks track the battle "forward", S1/S4 folks track the battle "rearward". There are usually at least one rep from the S1/S4 with the Main CP. The S3 usually has at least one of its M577s forward too, as the "jump" track or forward CP-- that is, they take over when the main CP has to move. It's generally the same for each echelon, from BN through Corps, the difference being, the higher you go, the equipment might change, and the CP footprints will get functionally much larger. Our Headquraters section in the 2/11 Cav in 1979 had four M577s. One for a jump track, two for the main CP (S2/S3) and one for the S4. As you went higher, to Division level for instance, you'd find more M577s for other staff echelons-- for instance Medical and DIVARTY (When I was in the 9th DIVARTY, we had four M54 based expando-vans, but armored Division DIVARTY's might have up to four M577s). Hopefully, this gives you some idea of the way these mobile CPs are used. I spent the later half of my career working in these kinds of CPs (9th ID, 2ID, 25th ID, USAREUR, Eighth Army, and finally I Corps). When I wasn't in a CP, I was either in units like TECOM, Eighth Army, or USARPAC. Finally retired from all that CP set-up in 2006!
VR, Russ



thanks for all that very interesting infotmation..where have you been stationed with 2/11 ACR?In bad kissingen?

Greetings
BootsDMS
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Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 - 10:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Just a Post Script to my earlier post-- the most fun I ever had while in an M577 was at the end of REFORGER 79, when the exercise was over. We had lagered with about ten other S4 vehicles somewhere north of Fulda in a long (maybe 20 miles wide by 20 miles long or so) valley with gently sloping sides. The weather was unseasonably warm for late September, and I'd climbed up on top of the track to have an early morning shave in my T-Shirt. As I was standing on top of the track, I noticed a very small dot in the sky off towards the south. I bent over to rinse my razor, and by the time I'd stood up, that tiny dot had become a full sized Luftwaffe F104G flying in full afterburner straight at me! It almost blew me off the track as it thundered over, and I could feel the heat of its exhaust on my newly shaven face. It couldn't have been more than 50 feet overhead. As I stood there gawking at its receding shape, the pilot pulled almost straight up and disappeared into the heavens. Thinking the show was over, I finished toweling off, then stood up again to a strange whistling noise-- from the east this time-- only to see the same "dot" appear in a dive down the valley side-- right towards my 577. This time I was more prepared, sat down on the generator housing, and watched him thunder over even lower than before. By the time the show was over, he'd buzzed our position about four or five times, from all the cardinal directions at low altitude. I figured he was using us for practice bomb runs, but it was quite an ear splitting show-- you couldnt hear much more than a whisper on the approach, but when he flew over it was incredibly loud. The sight of a fully camouflaged-Maltese-crossed-F104 flying at low altitude was unforgettable though.
VR, Russ



Russ,

This post has nothing to do with Tents at all I'm afraid, but Russ I feel for you.

I was in a British-based Div HQ in 1974. We had deployed to the edge of Sennelager Training Area just outside Barker Barracks (the bit of training area we were on may have been called Goldgrund).

Having driven up through 3 countries from one of the Channel ports, it had been a long journey such as only the military can devise, and we were given an afternoon and evening off before deploying properly into the 1st British Corps CPX "Summer Sales".

We were not dispersed tactically but in scattered packets in order to drive off in convoy the following morning. Needless to say the attraction of being once more in Germany, a land of milk and honey compared to drab UK, was too great to resist and with my fellow HQ warriors we hit the sights of Paderborn.

At some time in the early hours we staggered back up the hill and attempted to find our sleeping bags. Some never did and crashed out on the earth - it was a balmy August I think so no real problems on the soft long grass.

At 0630 the following morning 3 x Starfighters flew at full blast over our position at such low level one of the Signallers later claimed his radio mast had been clipped. The noise was shattering and within our monster hangovers, discombobulating to say the least. We quivered, quaked, moaned and vomited.

It was a hell of a reveille; we later found, to our collective shame, that the aircraft had taken photos of our position and our General was less than pleased to see clear images of Britain's finest in such disarray on the resultant imagery.

Those Luftwaffe boys certainly knew how to fly.

Brian
Kevlar06
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Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 - 11:29 AM UTC
Brian, yes-- I have great respect for those who flew that "lawn dart" at such a low level. I swear when he finally peeled off towards the south after his last run that he tipped the plane sideways, waggled his wings, and waved as he passed over, but that might just be my imagination working overtime (the wave that is, he did the wing waggle for sure before he disappeared over the horizon). I think we were just a "target of opportunity" we did have 30 feet of antenna deployed. It was early, (about 0600 I believe) on a crystal clear morning which was unusual, and at least 55 Fahrenheit. There weren't many folks awake, (after the first pass, everyone was awake!) since the exercise was over and we were relaxing before being assigned our convoy number to go back home. But I will never forget that show.

Matt, yes, I was in 2/11 at BK. I met my wife there, and we were married by the StandesStampt in the town hall. In 1995, I was assigned as commander of a Support Battalion in Hanau, and went back to visit BK. Deutsche Telecom had taken over the Kaserne by then. Later, I understand everything was torn down, except the old 2/11 mess hall building, (which was the historic HQ building during the Wehrmacht era) and that was turned into a museum commemorating the military presence in BK. We had close friends in Nudlingen, just north of BK. The place had really changed in the intervening 18 years since I'd been there. My wife and I had the priveledge of being the senior American officer (the only serving American that attended in fact) invited to Fulda, for the "Farewell Blackhorse" commemoration at the Fulda town hall in 1995, for which the city of Fulda put together a very nice pictorial (which I sill have) of the American presence in Fulda from 1944-1993, when the 11th Cav was de-activated in Germany. I have fond memories of my time in Germany (nearly seven years of my life between BK, Hanau and Heidelberg). And some of that time was spent in an M577!
VR, Russ
HeavyArty
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Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 - 04:10 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The S1 and S4 had thier own HQ known as the ALOC (Admin and Logistics Operations Center).



I believe that the name changed from ALOC to Combat Trains Command Post (CTCP) some time ago. in my experience, ALOC was old speak while CTCP was the then current term.

FWIW

John



Good info John. When I was last in an FA BN (1-21 FA (MLRS)) in '07-'09, it was still called the ALOC. It might have been an FA or MLRS thing though.
Reforger-Victim
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 - 05:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Brian, yes-- I have great respect for those who flew that "lawn dart" at such a low level. I swear when he finally peeled off towards the south after his last run that he tipped the plane sideways, waggled his wings, and waved as he passed over, but that might just be my imagination working overtime (the wave that is, he did the wing waggle for sure before he disappeared over the horizon). I think we were just a "target of opportunity" we did have 30 feet of antenna deployed. It was early, (about 0600 I believe) on a crystal clear morning which was unusual, and at least 55 Fahrenheit. There weren't many folks awake, (after the first pass, everyone was awake!) since the exercise was over and we were relaxing before being assigned our convoy number to go back home. But I will never forget that show.

Matt, yes, I was in 2/11 at BK. I met my wife there, and we were married by the StandesStampt in the town hall. In 1995, I was assigned as commander of a Support Battalion in Hanau, and went back to visit BK. Deutsche Telecom had taken over the Kaserne by then. Later, I understand everything was torn down, except the old 2/11 mess hall building, (which was the historic HQ building during the Wehrmacht era) and that was turned into a museum commemorating the military presence in BK. We had close friends in Nudlingen, just north of BK. The place had really changed in the intervening 18 years since I'd been there. My wife and I had the priveledge of being the senior American officer (the only serving American that attended in fact) invited to Fulda, for the "Farewell Blackhorse" commemoration at the Fulda town hall in 1995, for which the city of Fulda put together a very nice pictorial (which I sill have) of the American presence in Fulda from 1944-1993, when the 11th Cav was de-activated in Germany. I have fond memories of my time in Germany (nearly seven years of my life between BK, Hanau and Heidelberg). And some of that time was spent in an M577!
VR, Russ




Hello Russ,

interesting infos what you are telling..did you participate in any reforger exercises?maybe you can send me a private message..

Cheers,

Matt
Removed by original poster on 02/13/19 - 19:12:34 (GMT).
Kevlar06
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Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 - 07:16 AM UTC
Matt, I'll send a PM, but I was a participant in REFORGER 77, 78 and 79 in one form or another.
VR, Russ