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Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
Hosted by Darren Baker
NATO Tri Color paints
b2nhvi
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Nevada, United States
Joined: June 17, 2016
KitMaker: 528 posts
Armorama: 456 posts
Posted: Friday, April 13, 2018 - 08:09 AM UTC
What are the best options for NATO camo colors. I use a real brush. I used the Tamiya NATO paints with mixed results. Modelmaster enamel has the green and brown, but I don[t see the black. Lifecolor, AK and Mig are options .... but again I've had iffy results with coverage .... some are real thin. What are Vallejo's answers to the NATO colors? Also I've heard US and Bundeswehr colors are slightly different. ???
Kenaicop
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Nevada, United States
Joined: August 23, 2005
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Posted: Friday, April 13, 2018 - 10:20 AM UTC









I’ve had good results over the years with Tamiya. I airbrush the NATO green and brush on thinned black and brown.
b2nhvi
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Nevada, United States
Joined: June 17, 2016
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Posted: Friday, April 13, 2018 - 11:26 AM UTC
Good work. No air brush. I remember when I was working on some braille scale stuff I had issues with Tamiya ... I think black and brown .... not covering well.
pod3105
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Waterford, Ireland
Joined: August 08, 2010
KitMaker: 271 posts
Armorama: 261 posts
Posted: Friday, April 13, 2018 - 12:36 PM UTC
Personal results with Tamiya have also been somewhat hit and miss... another word of caution with Tamiya NATO colours : the tones were ,IIRC, originally developed for their 1/16 RC so the scale effect is a little off.
I use Valljo with out any issues, though you might alsobe interested in the HATAKA range as they are available as either AB or Hairystick sets.
HTH
Paul.
pattesmaq
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Haute-Alpes, France
Joined: June 27, 2012
KitMaker: 78 posts
Armorama: 78 posts
Posted: Friday, April 13, 2018 - 01:59 PM UTC
Hello
the camouflage otan is very successful I like the M88
Goodbye
U-mark
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Michigan, United States
Joined: January 04, 2017
KitMaker: 84 posts
Armorama: 58 posts
Posted: Friday, April 13, 2018 - 02:02 PM UTC
I've built a couple NATO scheme kits using Tamiya sprays with good results. AS-14 USAF Olive Green is a better match than TS-61 NATO Green. It's possible to spray the kit green and brush the other two colors over it. Since Tamiya sprays are lacquer they will stand up to acrylics or enamels. I usually let it cure a couple of days before I brush. Mark
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 16,232 posts
Armorama: 12,598 posts
Posted: Friday, April 13, 2018 - 05:09 PM UTC
I find Testors Model Master Field Drab, Medium Green, and Flat Black are the best colors for NATO camo. I have sprayed them w/an airbrush and used them with a brush with good results from each.
StanNC
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: November 27, 2012
KitMaker: 24 posts
Armorama: 20 posts
Posted: Friday, April 13, 2018 - 08:58 PM UTC
Would you happen to have the MM number or the FS number listed on the bottles of these Paints?

Thank you in advance for your reply
b2nhvi
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Nevada, United States
Joined: June 17, 2016
KitMaker: 528 posts
Armorama: 456 posts
Posted: Friday, April 13, 2018 - 11:29 PM UTC
Hi, Gino. Isn't the NATO brown redder than Field Drab? I know it was the brown used in the MERDC camo. What about the reported differences in US vs Euro colors? FS vs RAL I'd guess. Thought I read the Bundeswehr's green was a bit brighter. (I am gonna be working on a Leo 1A3) How are the model master NATO colors accuracy wise for Bundeswehr?
11Bravo_C2
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Texas, United States
Joined: May 12, 2015
KitMaker: 411 posts
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Posted: Saturday, April 14, 2018 - 01:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Would you happen to have the MM number or the FS number listed on the bottles of these Paints?

Thank you in advance for your reply



Google is your friend..

FS30118, 34102, 37038
junglejim
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: February 18, 2003
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Posted: Saturday, April 14, 2018 - 04:45 AM UTC
Tamiya paints are notoriously difficult to brush paint. I've heard using some of their retarder helps, but yah, I'd look for a Vallejo match. Tire black or a very dark grey will work for the black, it fades with dust.

Jim
Vicious
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
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Posted: Saturday, April 14, 2018 - 04:54 AM UTC
MissionModel Paints have all the Nato colors
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 16,232 posts
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Posted: Saturday, April 14, 2018 - 06:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi, Gino. Isn't the NATO brown redder than Field Drab? I know it was the brown used in the MERDC camo. What about the reported differences in US vs Euro colors? FS vs RAL I'd guess. Thought I read the Bundeswehr's green was a bit brighter. (I am gonna be working on a Leo 1A3) How are the model master NATO colors accuracy wise for Bundeswehr?



No idea on how they compare to the Bundeswehr colors. They look the same to me though. Yes, the Field Drab and the Medium Green are a bit more muted than the Red Brown and NATO Green, but they look more correct to me for a vehicle that has been in service. The Red Brown and NATO Green look too new and bright to me. The actual paints fade and mute out pretty quickly.


b2nhvi
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Nevada, United States
Joined: June 17, 2016
KitMaker: 528 posts
Armorama: 456 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 15, 2018 - 12:26 AM UTC
I KNEW I'd seen mention of there being a difference in NATO colors.
Colours
Only three colours are used in these camouflage schemes: green, red-brown and black. They, and their corresponding US Federal Standard 595a numbers, are shown on the table below. This also has model paint references which more or less match the FS-595a colours.

The colours indicated are not necessarily also correct for other NATO countries using these, or similar, camouflage patterns. For example, in American service a colour called green 383 is used, which is decidedly darker than the German Bronzgrün (bronze green).

All the colours are flat, as indicated by the first digit of the FS595a-code (1 = gloss, 2 = satin, 3 = flat).

Colour1 FS-595a Number Gunze Sangyo Humbrol Tamiya Testors (Model Master)
[colour sample]Black 37030 or 37037 H12/343 33 XF-69 (or XF-1) 1749
[colour sample]Brown 383 30051 ? ? XF-68 (or XF-64) ?
[colour sample]Green 383 34094 H309 116 XF-67 (or XF-61) 1710
1 Perhaps unnecessarily, it should be noted that the colours of these samples are approximations. Match paint to the FS595a and/or model paint colour numbers quoted in the table, not to the colours you see on your screen.

Variations
Some small variations on these schemes exist, mostly in the colours applied—since the camouflage is applied to new vehicles in the factory, they usually conform closely to the standard patterns. However, in winter with snow on the ground, the black is sometimes overpainted with white. This is usually done roughly, leaving some black showing through and/or applying the white paint to outside the borders of the black patches.

A second variation is with vehicles deployed to the National Training Center in Fort Irwin, California, USA. These frequently have the green oversprayed with a medium sand colour, again often going outside the green's original borders, but not showing the base colour underneath.
b2nhvi
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Nevada, United States
Joined: June 17, 2016
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Posted: Sunday, April 15, 2018 - 12:40 AM UTC
Looks like the Bundeswehr colors are RAL 6031 (green), RAL 8027 (brown), and RAL 9021 (black). Would be nice to be able to compare them side by side.
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, April 15, 2018 - 06:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

A second variation is with vehicles deployed to the National Training Center in Fort Irwin, California, USA. These frequently have the green oversprayed with a medium sand colour, again often going outside the green's original borders, but not showing the base colour underneath.



Don't know where this came from. All the draw vehicles at NTC are overall sand. The 11 ACR OPFOR vehicles are a sand/brown camo.




b2nhvi
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Nevada, United States
Joined: June 17, 2016
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Posted: Sunday, April 15, 2018 - 07:48 AM UTC
Vismod BMP-2 looks sand and black. Perhaps the comment was referring to the "visiting team" . Or do the units heading to NTC leave their stuff at home and use loaner gear? (Best NTC story I heard about was the idiot that flunked his ASVAB that ran a Bradley into the support for a bridge on I-15. Don't know how the Bradley faired but the main route from L.A. to Lost Wages was shut down for like 6 months while they fixed the bridge! They had a 1 lane .. each way ... by pass, with major back-ups /delays. Only other real option adds 100 miles to the trip.)
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 16,232 posts
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Posted: Sunday, April 15, 2018 - 04:39 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Vismod BMP-2 looks sand and black. Perhaps the comment was referring to the "visiting team" . Or do the units heading to NTC leave their stuff at home and use loaner gear?



It is sand/brown. Rotational Units (visiting team) brings about half their stuff (mainly combat vehicles) from home station and draws the rest (mainly support vehicles - HMMWVs/trucks) from the draw vehicle pool, which are pretty much overall sand, with maybe a few still in NATO camo.
b2nhvi
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Nevada, United States
Joined: June 17, 2016
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Posted: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - 11:34 AM UTC
Tried the MM "NATO Green " and "NATO Brown" (2173 2174 ). The green looks too grey (like a 20 year old Gate Guard.) Brown looks too faded too. Anybody know Valljo's Model Color equivalent for RAL 6031 and 8027? All I can find is the Air series.
marcjac
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Germany
Joined: September 18, 2012
KitMaker: 31 posts
Armorama: 31 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - 04:01 PM UTC
I used the following ones from Vallejo Model Air for Bundeswehr AFV. The colors look like the real ones which are RAL-Types. But I've no experience by painting with a brush...

Nato-Green -> Bronce Green 71250 (Bronzegrün)
Nato-Brown -> Leather Brown 71249 (Lederbraun)
Nato-Schwarz -> Nato Black 71251 (Teerschwarz)

But you should try AK Interactive Real Colors. They offer a complete set: Nato colors (RCS021). This colors are also near the real colors (like the name said ) and can be paint well with a brush. That's my experience.

regards
Marcus
Bravo1102
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
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Posted: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - 04:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Tried the MM "NATO Green " and "NATO Brown" (2173 2174 ). The green looks too grey (like a 20 year old Gate Guard.) Brown looks too faded too. Anybody know Valljo's Model Color equivalent for RAL 6031 and 8027? All I can find is the Air series.



At first I thought that was an old Verlinden box. It matches those boxes but looks like a faded re-paint NATO vehicle. I did a re-painted M981 where the paint matched that.

I also did a M901 in factory fresh bronze green that is especially bright and yellowish using the ancient Polly Scale NATO tricolor green. US tricolor paints to me matched the Polly Scale, German colors matched the Tamiya colors.

But that was a long time ago.
Blucop
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Wisconsin, United States
Joined: January 03, 2005
KitMaker: 255 posts
Armorama: 239 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - 05:38 PM UTC
I still have a few bottles of the Polly Scale and the Floquil Military Colors. They were my go to over the years, sad to see them gone.

Back to subject, I honestly cannot see myself "picking" about colors. I always start with the base NATO scheme and by the time you finish weathering, including filtering, it looks nothing like what it did to begin with. I see the same arguments on Aircraft Forums and guys wasting their time trying to find a perfect match. They do not exist.

If you brush paint, I would be more worried about brush strokes showing up on the model so I would choose the best paint AND brush for that purpose. You do get what you pay for when it comes to brushes.